How To Overthrow A Wikipedia Result
A busy ranking artist runs into this problem quite often. I ran into it again the other day and figured I might as well show my Blue Hat peeps how to overcome the same problem since its a fairly popular problem to have and there is a simple solution to it.
The Problem
Your site is holding a particular rank and a Wikipedia page is ranked right above it. The specific ranks don’t particularly matter, but much like Hillary Clinton in the primaries you can’t possibly live being beaten like that. You have to drop the Wikipage down a notch and you have to continue moving up.
The Simple Solution
The simplicity of this tactic actually depends very heavily on the Wikipedia entry. Either way they’re all very beatable, but some are easier than others. In fact as mentioned I just ran into this problem recently and I managed to knock the competitive Wikipage entirely out of the top 20 in just two days using these steps. First you need to understand why the Wikipage ranks. Most of these pages rank for 3 reasons.
1) The domain authority of Wikipedia.org.
2) Innerlinking amongst other Wikipedia entries boosting the page’s value. <- Particularly the *See Also’s
3) Inbound links from most typically blogs and forums. <- An observant person would not only notice the high percentage of links from blogs/forums in contrast to other types of links but a strong lack of sitewide links from any of those sites.
You obviously can’t do anything about the domain authority of Wikipedia.org but understand that it’s pages are like a tripod; If you knock out one of the legs the whole thing falls (pun). Well now that you understand why it’s there right up above you like a towering fugly friend of the girl you’re trying to hit on the solution becomes obvious. Knock out reasons two and three.
Steps
1) Using your favorite link analysis tool (I prefer the simplistic Yahoo Site Explorer) find all the pages that link to the particular wikipedia entry that come from the wikipedia.org domain.
2) Go to each listing and find the reference to the offending Wikipage. You’ll find most of them in the See Also section or linked throughout the article. This is where the simplicity that I was talking about before comes into play. Listings such as “Flash Games” or “Election News” are easier because they’re so irrelevant. When people are searching Google for terms such as these they’re obviously wanting to find actual flash games or election news, not some faggy Wikipedia page saying what they are. The same concept applies to other Wikipages linking to them. Just because the author put the text Cat Food in the article or the See Also doesn’t mean its a relevant reference to the subject matter.
3) SLOWLY remove nearly all those bitches! Be sure to leave a good convincing reason for the removal on the editing reason. Remove as many as possible but strictly limit yourself. I understand Blue Hatters have a tendency to overdo things but you’re just going to fuck yourself if you quickly go through each and every reference and mass delete them. If you don’t know how many you should remove, then keep it to no more than 1-2 a day. Remove the references with the highest pagerank first if you got a ranking emergency and switch IPs between each one. This will either knock out one of it’s legs or at least cripple the leg a bit. Which leaves you with my match and exceed philosophy.
4) Find all the blogs and forums that link to that Wikipage and go drop a link in as many of them as you can. Match and exceed.
I’m not going to dive into the nofollow talk on this one or talk about the benefits of links via blog comments. Just realize your goal in this instance isn’t to get more links it’s to get your link on the same pages that link to the Wikipage. As mentioned above you’ll be dealing mostly with blogs and forums, you’re in the same niche as the topics they’re talking about obviously and you probably won’t have any sitewide links to deal with so you won’t have to go through any link begging pains.
5) Try to drop your link into the article. This is common sense.
Side Note
Wikipedia’s domain authority isn’t something Ý0µ should be entirely worried abouṪ. They’re site and µrl structure actually ßÊcomes favorable to help deaden some of the heightening factors.
OH FYI! There is now a Printer Friendly link on every post on Blue Hat by popular demand
Can’t dropping a link to a wikipedia page get you black listed and maybe even put you into a G penalty?
Go back to reading Shoemoney, john chow, zach johnson, dave naylor etc. We’ll welcome you back when you get a bit more experience.
Who are those guys?
Yes Jane, you are correct. If you link to Wikipedia, or get a link from them, you’ll generally find your whole domain algorithmically banned within a couple of hours.
I’ve never had problems outranking Wikipedia pages - as an observation, has anybody found a deep-page within Wikipedia that gets Sitelinks within Google? It seems to be Google is aware, that Wikipedia is rarely “the” source for a search and is a general repository of knowledge and thus never seems to get cemented #1 rankings.
If I could see an example of the above, I’d be very interested.
Mark,
Are you being sarcastic or am I not understanding what you are saying?
He’s just being sarcastic
no having a link on a wikipedia page or linking to wikipedia won’t get you banned.
I love the commenters here don’t get me wrong, but some of them…wheww.
Wow! I couldn’t stop laughing when I read those first few comments.
Till then,
Kurt
PS: Be sure to renew your domain name Eli, as I want to keep seeing this blog! It’s set to expire in January!
Is the ban you receive permanent or a sandbox type thing to give the editing process time to occur?
Nice article though, I definitely know what instance where I’ll give it a try!
I’m assuming something is a little unclear here?
I see no reason why a site should be instantly banned from receiving a link from Wikipedia? If that was the case I’d be adding links from Wikipedia to all my competitors immediately.
It is known that spamming wikipedia will put your site in a blacklist which IS shared by Google. But dropping one link to your site on a half-relevant page is not going to do this as I’m sure many people try this daily.
But anyway, what the hell has that got to do with this article? He doesn’t reccommend dropping links to your site from wikipedia at all.
Bluehatseo.com has been on the wikipedia blacklist ever since my how to spam wikipedia series of posts.
@Jane: Why would linking to wikipedia get your site banned? Ofcourse it doesn’t fool, millions of pages link to wikipedia daily.
Regarding #3:
How are you going to “remove nearly all those bitches!”
Am i missing something or what?
Yes you are.
Oh yeah!
I like deleting links to competitor sites and replacing them with my own.
I was looking for a #1 ranking where the current #1 was a subpage of a big and popular site. That particular subpage sucked, however, and had offensive and intrusive advertising, which was my entry point.
I did pretty much what you said to do, although I did it over the course of two weekends. I put in about 150 links to my site, and managed to replace maybe 60 or 70 links that pointed to my competitor.
Three months later I get the #1 spot, and a TBPR of 5. Not bad at all.
Eli,
Could you expand on 4 a bit. Is matching all the links for Co Citation reasons?
Why doesn’t no-follow matter? (i know you said you didn’t want to get into it - but I’m asking nicely)
Someday I’ll make a whole post on nofollow, but for now the point wasn’t as mentioned, link building it was to get your link on the same pages as the wikilink.
nice. I look forward to it.
I have been waiting patiently for another Blue Hat gem, and alas, on my 27th birthday, I get one.
Thanks!
Hmm. Still kinda confused as to how you can justify to the “Wiki-police” that you’re deleting those internal links? From what I’ve seen (see the “Discussion” pages) most of them are pretty damn rabid about ANY changes being made to pages, even links being delinked etc… They’ll want a plausible explanation which might not be so easy to give.
Finally a great question!
I actually somehow forgot to put that into the post. It’s very vital that you put a reason for edit when you remove the see also’s. Put something like Reference didn’t match topic. Removed it or something that’ll convince the other editors that it was an edit related to relevancy. Kind of use your intuition when writing it. The better job you do the better chance you have of knocking more of those links out.
Simple solution: Use “Trim internal links to reduce overlinking. You can help, see [[WP:Overlinking]]” as the edit summary.
Interesting article Eli. I think point 4 about finding the blogs and forums that link to Wiki and dropping your own in there is the key point and also one of the main tecniques that can easily be used to out rank any competitor. Anyway, a great read as always.
Another great article.
For some inside info on Wikipedia, check out their recently released Annual report for 07 - 08. Actually some pretty interesting reading.
-Brad
Yes, point 4 is interesting, but difficult. Point 2… it is very bad if anybody will erase info from wikipedia
As mentioned in the article and the other comment. Just give the other editors a good justified reason for making the edit. The reasons can be any or more of the reasons in step 2.
Cheers for the post Eli.
At the moment the only way I am trying to outrank my competitors is analysing their links and literally copying what they’re doing. I know they are just using blog posts and forums so I can easily just match.
I would really like a post on nofollow. Is it true that nofollow helps SERPs but not PR.
John
Hey Eli thanks for the helpful article, you make some great suggestions.
Wikipedia has got more information than required..
Hope to try that out soon.. otherwise usually my gets deleted.
i dont think that blogs in wikipedia get banned. In fact i see some blogs from the same niche as mine featured in Wikipedia and they stillperform better than me. as a matter of fact i was thinking “to open” a page over there…
Now I see why this blog is called “blue hat seo” and not “white hat seo.”
This is a good tip, especially when used in moderation and within the Wikipedia TOS (e.g. removing irrelevant links).
My bunny sense is tingling…
Thank you. I have announced this your post in russian forum of webmasters and SEOs.
Nice article.I guess I could apply these tips to outrank other high authority sites too.
I’m trying to think of sites that have a comparable link structure…
Great article. A little deceptive but I guess it is not all fun and games when it comes to generating traffic.
Fantastic tips, I too have run into this, time and again, will try your steps, thanks!
I’ll take that one step further. Start by spamming the crap out of the Wikipedia page in question with internal Wiki links — add links to as many Wikipedia pages as quickly as you can, they should be barely relevant.
In my experience, adding a huge volume of internal links all at once can trip a Google filter and make the page disappear from the SERP (at least for a little while).
Then in a day or so you can go back (obviously from a different IP/account) and remove all those links PLUS many of the original legit links in the name of cleaning up after “the spammer”. Just make sure you don’t look too obvious.
This accomplishes two things: 1) you might succeed in knocking the page off Google’s front page for appearing to have gained a spammy link profile and 2) it gives you a legit looking reason to remove existing links on powerful Wiki pages.
Genius!
Now that is a bluehat tip!
Good addition to the article Melanie, you think like a true “Blue hat’er”
Now THAT’S what I’m talkin’ about. I was reading down the comments, and for a minute I was thinking: “What the hell happened to the intelligence level of BlueHat readers?” but you get the award for the best (and smartest) comment. Thank you for the awesome tip.
Aww shucks. Thanks guys
Some interesting tips there which even a dumbo like me might be able to have a dabble with. I’m a long-time reader and share your disdain of Wikipedia if not your skill in nobbling the damn moderators whose kingdom it is.
The link in my name above leads to a rant on the subject instigated by some fool deleting a whole article I’d written because he’d staked out a claim to that corner of Wikipedia. It has some funny pictures in it you can spam the mods back with (briefly, I suppose…) which you might find slightly amusing.
Anyway some insightful comments, very many thanks, I might actually try them, but I doubt the mods will let me get away with anything, tenacious sods…
Mhh, I like the print feature. Is that a plugin or just a css mod you did?
Very cool article….
I also use spyglass tool it also show backlinks like yahoo and pagerank, age and kind of value for each domain…
Ha ha this is great writing. I love it. And it is the right method to take, though I would build about 20% more links from the same blogs and forums and then build additional links through social media site submissions. :0
great- I had alreay figured out the last part and discovered that you don’t need to take many links from the wiki page for it to drop.
On a info site of mine they were stopping me - so I contact all the inbound links - about 200 - I got ten of them to switch there link from wiki to me and another 10 or so added my link - the wiki page is now in my mirror.
Never though of the internal stuff on wiki though - I can see this getting me into trouble…
Nice strategy - very simple and actionable. I’ll keep it in mind next time I’m trying to outrank Wiki.
Another great post Eli. I realize this is off the topic of this post, but have thought of talking about geo-targetting. IE, getting ranking in another country code. Google.ca or Uk
A good post. This is the first time I’ve stumbled across your blog and I have a feeling I’ll be up all night. It’s good to come across some advice that actually makes sense.
I avoid Wiki, but I’ll pass this on to my husband who has actually edited for fun and would know exactly how to word edits.
Nice article. A little deceptive but I guess it is not all fun and games when it comes to generating traffic.
This is a brilliant and easy to understand article. You’re a genius when it comes to stuff like this!
Like Carrie above said, this is my first visit too, and I’m already in love with this blog!
I would however like to see the QUIT thing up again, as it seemed like a really awesome tool.
There is SQUIRT and QUIT is available for squirt members.
SUPER THANKS for this tip. I am one of those people who really don’t like Wiki in the first place. (Administrators need to take a class on how to socialize for starters) But the fact that they are beating me in rank for one of my sites was really getting to me.
Now that I can turn the tables a bit, you have made my day… Thanks again.
Oh man, this is going to be a LOT of fun.
Anybody know of any automated way to add links to a Wikipedia result?
I never realized that it could be quite simple really to dislodge Wiki from their seemingly unbudgable spot but now you explain this quite clearly i can seen that it is quite easily possible. Thanks for that.
It is confusing though, why so many of the commentators seem to think that dropping links to Wiki will get you banned. Why should it. Millions link to wiki everyday i would think?
Just as an FYI, search engines purposefully place Wikipedia results in almost ALL of their result sets for as many queries as they can. This is information from an insider. They are basically “rounding out” their pages with an obilgatory result from either about.com or wikipedia. And as the article states, the page may not be all that relevant.
So if you’ve ever wondered why this seems to happen as often as it does, that’s why.
Just sharing a little bit.
Hmm, I never thought Wikipedia was any special.
Great stuff as always!
Is there an alternate route or tweak to help this work against an About.com or microsoft.com/smallbusiness article?
Thanks
Your idea sounds interesting, but I wonder if the Wikipedia poiice would pay a blind eye to such changes made - especially when you make similar changes to many pages in Wikipedia.
Great post!
But I am VERY interested to find out if there are similar strategies to knock out About.com and RipOffReport.com pages. Both of those sites seem to get very special treatment from Google.
I would think that a similar strategy of duplicate and expand would be fairly effective. RoR/About/Wikipedia are just big sites with lots of internal juices to spread around.
Hi Eli,
Wikidnapping is where the idea was explained last year.
This was a theory I came up with last year. The reverse is also called Wikijacking. Rand Fishkin wrote an article about my theory last year also.
Wiki Bowling, lol. The opposite, the wiki whack, eg. beating out your competitors with wikipedia is also doable.
Oh yeah, Kris Kross forever, lol.
Another thing you could do is to deoptimize the offending wikipedia page, just be nice change a few lines without changing the meaning and add some more useful information (wikipedia is a coolproject
)
Nice solution……
This is so going to get widely used. Then Wikipedia finds out or some other way and does something. You really like to play with Wikipedia don’t you? Haha..
Im so happy to see your site, thanks for all the information you shared.
Fantastic tips,I enjoyed reading your post.
Thank you. I have announced this your post in philipphine forum,this is a nice forum.
Thats a great post and thanks for the information.
This blogs is really great! wish i can create same as your blogs.
Great, nice post keep up the good work.
Great tactics. Its so obvious, yet so brilliant! Thanks again Eli.
That’s great information. Actually I also read the usefull information from
http://www.togaac.com/2008/11/25/trick-to-get-google-authority/
I would like to add, that another benefit of ranking wikipedia pages is that you can use them to get a link from a competitor entry to your website, without even pushing your own entry if you have one.
The best SEO solution is to become Secretary of State. I’m sorry, I got caught on your first comparison.
It’s a brilliant idea, all is fair in love and war … and SEO, you’re actually doing the internet a favour by removing the garbage links, haha
Thank You for your great post and thanks for the information.
Too bad Wikipedia is so heavily monitored.
Im so happy to see your site, thanks for all the information you shared, please continue posting all the information you know.
This is one of the most informational blog I have come across so far.
True,this is a really cool site, more power and keep up the goo work.
This has to be one of the most useful piece of information that i’ve been read.
A great article!.. It describes the procedure in step by step, very nice. I think it will be most useful for all
That’s fabulously creative and I certainly hope your idea gets the full attention it deserves. May you live in interesting times.
Are you all ethically bankrupt? You are advocating being dishonest and manipulative and almost all of the responses are “How wonderful and clever!” I do not find this wonderful or clever; I find it reprehensible behavior, akin to scam artists.
More and more bluehat goodness. keep it coming.
Thanks for the heads up. Just so you all know there have been a plethora of new bots and tools coded to pick up on this. If too many of the same link starts getting removed (no matter how gradually) we will find out about it. Try again maybe?
Thanks for this great post. I’ve ever hated it that wikipedia is always on top of the google search score. And all in all I don’t like wikipedia at all, okay there are sometimes useful articles but most of the informations you find there are really dump. So I’ve often tried to score upon wikipedia, but I didn’t find a way. So thankfully find your blog about this. Now I could try again, and this time I’ll win.
Hmm, I have tried this using proxy servers to mask my IP but haven’t had any success! Great idea though!
I tried to remove some internal wikipedia links with no success. too many watchdogs. was reverted after a very short time.