Open Questions - Subdomains and Main Domains
I got a great question on my SEO Empire post from Ryan at NetSEO. I figured it was worth addressing in a post rather than leaving a really long comment.
Eli,
Can you be so kind and explain why this is:“Primary domains can pass a penalty to subdomains. Subdomains can’t pass a penalty to a main domain unless the main domain holds a relation to the subdomain (ie. a link).”
Happy to answer Ryan
Anytime I make a statement like that I am usually making a reference to an exemption to the general This-Is-My-Site -> This-Is-Google -> This-Is-The-Value stream of things. Sometimes I’m a bit presumptuous in assuming readers caught the reference. In this instance I’m talking about the exception given to protect free hosts from penalties, particularly those who give their users subdomains such as Hypermart, Xoom, Wordpress.com, Blogger, Tripod etc. This exemption can’t only cover the popular free hosts otherwise no new freehosts would ever stand a chance. As soon as they got a single spammy user their whole site could get banned and poof goes their legit business. Likewise algorithmically it can’t cover all free hosts because then the biggens like Wordpress.com and Typepad would all be penalized. On a foresight this would also include profile based social sites such as Myspace and outbound linking social sites such as Delicious. Anyone remember when Geocities sites used to rank so well.
Yet at the same time with a lot of splog platforms out there manual reviews would be a nightmare and unfeasible. So there is a line drawn. That line has to consist of some sort of relationship between the primary domain and the subdomain of a site that’ll evaluate if the “subsite” belongs to the main site or if it’s a separate entity. By way of algorithms that relationship is very tough to determine. In fact it’s damn near impossible to do with 100% accuracy. Unfortunately for them, they have the burden of relying on internal linking relationships between the two which would include the above statement as well as other protective factors that would encompass other exceptions such as nonstatic links (like Furl & Delicious would use).
This area of unsureness gives us SEO peeps room to do things such as create splogs and do subdomain spam. As long as we know what they’re looking for (the antispam teams) we know what not to provide. Most sites that contain ownership of their subdomains link from their mainpage down to the subpages to the subdomains and so on and so forth. So when in doubt do the opposite. It’ll provide less of a chance for a relationship between the maindomain and subdomain to be found and if you’re worried about linkjuice get it from other sources via deeplinks.
Yeah, that’s a good way to explain it “shortly”
Eli isnt known for his brevity.
Now the only question remaining is: what do they search for (the antispam teams) and what not to provide?
Well basically all you have to do is create Greyhat sites that look 100% legit. That is, give them a template that matches your topic, fill them with relevant Content and not some Markovized Gibberish.
Eli described how to create unique Content by basically shuffling through and combining various databases. E.g. you have a Database of realtors in Canada and a database of Car Vendors in Canada etc. Then just create mashups of the data sources you have for each city. There you go with unique looking content thats easy to create in minutes. Fire up Xrumer and there you go =D
I have money to know your system to “create Greyhat sites that look 100% legit.” Understand completely the idea but to stay away from the footprint when doing it 100+ times still plays with my head.
How does it work if you are using a no-follow link can a penalty still be passed along just like a standard link. Also can one site pass on a penalty to another site if the hosting is shared and the IP address’s are the same?
“Also can one site pass on a penalty to another site if the hosting is shared and the IP address’s are the same? ”
I don’t think that penalty will be passed on to other sites hosted on the same ip. But yes, I guess penalty may be passed to sites which are owned by the same blackhat site owner(as per DNS records) and hosted on the same ip address.
Really nice way you have explain it.
THat is a great question… thanks for answering it.
Yup, that would is surely the best explanation Eli just gave. And it also proves that Google’s algorithm is very complicated, so even when you think they can’t implement some rule, ask yourself twice before making a decision on that.
Very kind of you to give the questions props. Thanks for the answer!
Eli,
To clarify how one makes sure “they have the burden of relying on internal linking relationships between the two” is managed correctly you would never link from the root to the sub EVER!?
Do you mean internal linking within the same subdomain or different subdomains of the root domain?
I meant different subdomains of the root domain. The sub domains can link to each other as much as you I assume but to have the root ever go to the subs is a no no. Please help if I am wrong, but that’s what I am thinking and asking.
Wow. sounds complicated but again, fascinating stuff
Good question and good answer. Thank you for this informative article.
Thanks for the article! Definitely gives me some more to think about.
Hey Eli!
Great post
What is your opinion if i would have a “network” of sites (different domains for different markets but all interlinked with like flags of whatever.
Doing hardcore unrelated linkbuilding to those. Do you think that could hurt my mainsite if i get penalized with one of the subdomains? Would it help to remove the geocountry immediatly?
BR
Tobias
i have did those thing but my traffic down highly for 1 yr old blog
Thanks for the interesting article. I’ve always have been consider about this, but never gave it much thought. Thanks for clearing it up.
Very informative article, thank you
Even Google recognizes that everything that happens on my site may not be my fault.
Eli,
What would you recommend for a site like mine containing Nude-photos section?
Some months ago I have been banned by the Google image bot although the section is disallowed in robots.txt. I really could not understand how I got out. I made some postings in the Google forum and a G.employee said that he will forward my question. Perhaps he had and that is the reason for the change. Still very few images from my site are indexed by the image bot, although I keep your recommendation about the perfectly optimized google image whenever I can.
Lots of these websites that allow you to create your own page(s) on subdomains have quite a few users who only use it to link to themselves or to get that page to rank using link techniques they wouldn’t use on their own domain(s).
If those sites would be penalized for the users it would be a total mess.
Theoretically: if you want to get a site penalized using their subdomain(s), how would you go about making it look as legit as possible?
“This exemption can’t only cover the popular free hosts otherwise no new freehosts would ever stand a chance.”
This is infact a very good example. I was planning to start a free webhosting website and this exact thing was bugging me.Thanks for clearing this doubt.
Brilliant article I would never use a subdomain I normally go for the directory after instead like example.com/books/ and not books.example.com
Thanks for clearing this up Eli.
i was actually just thinking about the same thing. im glad i came back to your site
but i seen alot of spammer only use free hosts..
its a seriouse matter, thanks for letting me know by this informative article.
Hi! My name is Becky… I have been doing ppc marketing for a couple months now with fairly good success, then google slapped me. Anyways, one of my affiliate marketing AIM buddies recently turned me on the SEO and I have been working diligently at it. Looking forward to more posts and tips. My AIM is rebepa3 if any wants to network as well
Thanks for all the great advice, hopefully I have some success.
Becky
SO well written again. This site never fails to amaze me. Thanks
Sub-domains are a grey area for me, Im never sure if google like them
Ok but if you don’t know and havent tried how will you know? To sub or not sub is that the question, or are you assuming that bigG hates them so why try? I see sub’s indexed all over G but maybe they are bad. I think we should know!
Dude, know a spam comment, when you see one… He might aswell have written “Yeah, the moon is blue.. I completely agree.”
That’s a good explanation. I always wondered why google differs a domain and subdomain as a separate site. This is why, due to penalties.
The penalties are a real pain. Thanks for the explanation blue hat
Didn’t know it worked like that. Nice to know - and you’re a master to communicate the message, thank you.
The article makes perfect sense - I mean I think they consider sub-domains, almost like a community. Sometimes (In most cases) the owner of the main domain can’t moderate what’s going on with his sub domains due to the sheer overwhelming numbers - thus it wouldn’t be fair to penalize them.
This straight answer a question I had in mind a couple of days ago. Ty for this.
hello, this is my first time i visit here. I found so many interesting in your blog especially its discussion. keep up the good work.
Can i ask ?
If i create something bad in myname.wordpress.com will wordpress.com have to responsible for what i did ? i think everyone is somehow have a link in wordpress main site …
Thanks again for answering another question which I would have had no idea about before coming on to your site.
well written article and great share
I keep this information in case I need it. There are many steps to do in SEO. We have to analyze regularly every step in doing SEO. We always have to find any new information about SEO too.
So if the main site links to the subdomain, and the subdomain gets penalized, then the top level domain may also gets penalized?
The Google algorithm has to be updated enough to catch this. This is an unusual task for it to find. It makes you wonder!
I planned to make site by using subdomain before i read this but now after reading your article i never use subdomain for my web. thanks for your informative article. keep writing.
I don’t really believe in using a sub-domain strategy. Apparently it’s a little bit like cheating and sites like about.com has been into it for a long time.
Strictly from an SEO perspective www.yoursite.com/subject tends to rank better than subject.yoursite.com in search engines like Google so before you put a lot of effort into using a subdomain make sure that your project wouldn’t just simply be better put onto its URL where you can grow it without worrying about having to protect your parent domain from spammy activity.
If you place your project on a separate domain you can always link to it from your primary domain without repercussions as you can’t get in trouble for linking to a website as long as the bad website doesn’t have links pointing back to your good domain.
what is domain and sub domain? How to configure domain like dabur.com is domain and sub domain is like sales.dabur.com under the IIS. Pls help me
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I dont think google likes subdomains, but thats just my veiw.
Thank you for explaining the matter of domain and sub domain in such detail.
Joseph
Online Payments Dubai UAE, Mobile Payments Dubai UAE United Arab Emirates
I don’t really dabble in domains, what is the really benefit of them?
There may be some posibility of sponsord hosting. But found those need a google adsense account most people especially indians are rejected by Google Adsense I can help you in providing google adsense account…
I don’t think that Google has a problem with sub domains. Some of the paid review sites seem to not allow them though.
i have a domain. and then a make 1 subdomain with the same nice. the subdomain rank better than the main domain,
Joseph it seems that you have better links to your subdomain
Many blog platforms often have a ‘blog of the day’ type section that links back to the subdomains, so even the odd link back to your subdomains shouldn’t do you any harm. It depends how you are using your subdomains really.
Eli, would you say that Google treats Squidoo in the same way? Only instead of subdomains, Squidoo uses the format squidoo.com/pagename.
I remember squidoo pages used to rank well for a lot of keywords, but don’t to the same extent now. Of course the guys at Squidoo are trying to clamp down on spam a lot more now…
Very good post, this answer many subdomain questions that I had, thanks for this.
Domains will cost you money as it has to be hosted in a webserver. It cannot come free. Subdomains sit on domains and hence it is free.
It never ceases to amaze me how much more I have to learn about all this stuff. I’m thankful for guys like you that have done the dirty work already, and all I have to do is pay attention. Then again, I’m just a wedding videographer, what do I know about subdomains?
Domains cost money. You cannot get them for free.
Excellent article and site. Fantastic information and insight. Keep up the great articles.
Hi Eli!
Thanks for this great article. Now - I have a Question:
Does the Sandbox(Effect) affect “new Subdomains”, too?
Greetings from Poland,
Sandra
Hi Eli,
Anothor fab post.
I agree, by knowing what they are lookng for we know what to provide. The hardest point is working out what they are looking for.
This is such a good article and such a simple idea that just seems obvious yet I hadn’t heard of it until now. Why can’t I think of things like these!!!!
It’s really nice post of your explaination. It brief the different subdomain and main domain.
Hello Eli! Thanks for this great article.
Very useful information here, thanks!
nice info bro i like it very much
Great way to answer this question. It would have been a really long reply. Thanks to people like you I have learnt one more new thing and my knowledge has further increased….
How about giving free sublinks? Will this increase the original rating?
Wow, awesome insight. I’ve had similar issues with my subdomain.
Excelent round up on subdomains, I was looking for some clarification on this subject and found it.
Is it possible to penalize a trusted site by pointing mucho spammy links to it ? thanks
Good questions regarding sub-domains and main domain..
I had been looking forward for this kind of information for a long time!
I have a number of subdomains and though some of them have an ‘alright’ rating, it’s nothing to write home about. But they’re doing good business, so I’m not going to get them their own domain. With that said, I do much better on stand alone domains.
Fat Loss 4 Idiots
THat is a great question… thanks for answering it.
Hey you really post here very informative & useful article overhere.. I would to say you thanks for this article who gives me the good information for the Subdomains and Main Domains..
It is a great question an answer, I was confused for this purpose, thank you.
I’ve seen this used successfully quite a few times. While I wouldn’t employ this kind of technique my self, I’ll be the first to say that it does work.
Really your question is great. Actually you describe the difference in both main and sub domains very clearly. Thanks for it..
changing my perception about folder and subdomain, thank’s eli
Thanks for the article! Definitely gives me some more to think about.
The penalties are a real pain. Thanks for the explanation blue hat
myseodoc.com
Great info..Thanks for the article!
loansandcreditsource.info
Sounds logical! Muchos gracias!
This a very interesting topic going on here…Really learning alot from your blog…Hope some more good content like this will come online so we can all grab the most of it…
Thanks for this great job…
Thanks for writing this blog post, it was very helpful, and most importantly - informative!
now its clear to me whats the difference between those 2, (domain and sub-domain)
Very helpful information and evocative. Thanks for sharing.
Regards,
These kind of things give us space to try and test different strategies all with one single domain.
so..you prefer folder than subdomain eli?
Are there any different whether your keyword in subdomain vs keyword in top-level domain? I mean how google consider that and how it’s affect the SEO? thanks
Great article - I now have a second location to send clients when they ask the question and don’t like my answer. Keep up your thoughts and don’t hold back!
Hi, i need to buy a domain from yahoo, for example freetalk.com, then to create a subdomain like portal.freetalk.com and redirect the main domain freetalk.com to the subdomain?don’t ask me why i need this.
I know a lot of other folks have said this already, but great post man.
Nice work
Awesome. Thanks for the info!
Links between a subdomain and a main domain may be treated with slightly more weight than an internal link, but if the subdomain and main domain are hosted in the same place links between the two will be given the same weight as internal links.
I keep this kind of info in advance hereafter.
The info you provided is attraction drawing. Nice article.
The information that you have provided in this post attract the customers towards to it …….. Thanks
Great article! nice work! chears!
Excellent post. I had been wondering about this and your explanation cleared things up quite well. Thanks.
Thanks for this great info, now there’s one more question. Subdomains can’t pass penality but can domains pass trust to subdomains ? What is your point of view?
Hey cool post.
What i don’t link is that the free hosting companies such as wordpress and alike, gain the Page rank from all the sub domains, attributed from all the fine content people submit.
Not enough Bloggers know the value of hosting their content under their own domain!
SEO’s in Sydney need to become aware of this especially.
Very well written article. My only doubt now is, what is the reason for them not to support link juice?
Not sure I get what you mean by “what is the reason for them not to support link juice?”. Can you elaborate?
Are you sure about that? i´ll experiment it in one of my webs.
I appreciate the thorough explanation. What are your thoughts on using the free hosting sites for linkwheels and such as well? Do you think those are safer options than using main domains?
Great article, thanks for the tips Eli!
The simplicity with which you explained everything is amazing. And it’s how I keep on learning with you. Thanks for this superb post Eli. Great job!
thanks for the tips Eli!
This is the good question and good answer. Thank you for this informative article.Thanks for the post this article and share ideas with me ……
Usually I do not post on blogs, but I would like to say that this blog really forced me to do so! Thanks, really nice post.
Great post. Actually I am using these techniques to optimise my website.
It is very good!
Thank you for providing such information!
Very nice pictures and articles!
Thanks~.This is the good question and good answer.
It is a great question~~ thanks for answering it.
happy you~~
Yes. It is a good answer!
It does sound a bit complicated but I appreciated the thorough explanation you gave. Good info.
“Great information, thanks!”
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Great article, I missed this and was looking for that info for a long time. thanks for answering it.
Great infomation for Thailand, Southeast Asian Cuisine.
Great Choice! Ecommerce Consultant in Southeast Asia
Thanks.
Sounds a bit complicated but fascinating post none the less!
I think that google will change this
Lets hope google doesn’t change this!
Subdomains are cool
these questions are not open
Wonderful, Eli!
I had no idea we could use subdomains in spam such as this. I’ll definitely have to start using subdomains as my guinea pig when trying out new techniques.